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tv   The Katie Phang Show  MSNBC  June 10, 2023 5:00am-6:00am PDT

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welcome back to another hour of the katie phang show, we're continuing our coverage of the historic federal indictments of former president donald trump for his alleged wrongful retention of classified documents. the 38 count indictment was unsealed yesterday, and charges donald trump with 30 when it counts of willful retention national defense information under the espionage act. the charges also include making false statements, the conspiracy to obstruct justice,
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and withholding and concealing records. later today, trump will campaign in georgia and north carolina, where voters will hear from him for the first time since the indictment was unsealed. on tuesday, he's expected to be arraigned on those federal charges in miami. nbc news justice -- joins me now. can, i appreciate you joining us once again to get our 8:00 hour kicks off. tell us what we can expect to see from donald trump's arraignment on tuesday, a lot of us, and all of us, saw his arraignment when he was arraigned in the manhattan d.a. 's office for those hush money payments that remains to stormy daniels. is there going to be a different process this time? >> slightly different, and many ways the same, katie. as you know, the federal system is a bit different from a state court in new york. i just think, as a matter of history and moments, it's a much bigger deal, in part because this is the federal
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government that donald trump used to run. he presided over. these people had photos of him in their offices, the federal marshals, the fbi, now he will be surrendering to the organizations, and he will be processed. his mugshot will be taken, although that won't be released. he will be fingerprinted, they will confiscate his passport. think about that, the former president of the united states, and then there will be a court appearance, a combination of, as you know, first appearance and arraignment, where they will ask whether he waives reading the indictment. they expect him to do that, they'll ask how he plead, still expect that he pleads not guilty. and then the judge will be confronted with whether to keep any particular defendant confined in jail before trial, that obviously will not happen here, but it'll be interesting to see whether the judge tries to impose any conditions on trump, in terms of what he can say about the prosecutors, the judge and other players in this case, because he has a habit of attacking people involved in
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the cases, in which he's involves on social media, and that is a very destabilizing thing for the court system. and then the other question about tuesdays, what kind of presents we'll see from pro trump demonstrators, obviously there's a big security concern, as you know, yielded few, is this courthouse is situated in a large city block, which it seems to me, could easily be blocked off and secured. nonetheless, there's a lot of meetings and conversations going along along -- the fbi, the miami police, and other security agencies about exactly how's are going to cause to secure this on tuesday. the one mystery about how it'll be handled tuesday's he's under secret service protection. right, for life. presumably a secret service agent, as we saw in new york, will be with him throughout the process, and they may make some accommodations, some deviations, and the booking process, because he does have that armed secret service agent with him, katie. >> you know, ken, i have to appreciate you grounding us
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once again in the import of this moment, the fact that you're even having this conversation with us, that the former president of the united states with a secret service detail is going to have to make special accommodations to be fingerprinted and the rain for federal indictment. can delaney, and thank you so much for the insight and getting us started at this 8:00 hour. i appreciate you. and joining me now to continue this conversation, one of my favorites. barbara mcquade, msnbc legal analyst, -- state of michigan, and co-host of the hashtag -- podcasts. this, in my opinion, was an incredible speaking indictment, from special counsel jack smith. clearly written, detailed. smith left no crumbs. i could not see a pathway for donald trump to successfully wind a motion to dismiss. what's your opinion? >> i agree with that, katie. one of the things that they do, i think exceptionally well here, is detail some of the evidence. as you say, this is what's called a speaking indictment. the law requires only that you
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state the language of the statute that's violated, so this could have been done in a much briefer form, but i think when you have something, whether it's likely to be -- the importance of public confidence, they wanted to lay out the strength of the case. and so, we see things like text message exchanges, and statements that trump's lawyers wrote down about -- donald trump himself made, conversations that -- other employees. while not a gave to the npr when he lied to them. and so, all of those things really demonstrate a strong case. and i agree with you, katie, in terms of a dismissal, i don't the see that happening. there are questions that a jury will have to find, but that will be at a jury trial, not at a pretrial motion. >> barb, i want to stick on this procedural posture, so this indictment is unsealed, he gets arraigned on tuesday, motion practice will happen. i can anticipate a motion to
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dismiss. is there a remedy? can a little trump take an appeal if he moves to dismiss and the judge denies the motion to dismiss at this particular stage? >> mostly, now. there's something called the final judgment rule that prevents piece male litigation issues and it requires a defendants to wait until the end and save all the appellate issues until after the case is tried. there are a few filipe larry issues -- interlocutory setting, and those are things that would involve irreparable harm, if not resolved right away. for example, a detention decision. if donald trump or, for some reason, detained, he could appeal that question. other issues that relate to the case itself have to wait until the end after there's a jury trial. and so, that doesn't give some hope, i think, that this case could be tried before the 2024 election. >> and barr, we are talking about the strength of the evidence. i was noting text messages, surveillance video, evan corcoran's notes, how do you
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tape recordings, a grand jury testimony, trump's own words. all of this amazing treasure trove of evidence that special counsel jack smith has, is there one that sticks out the strongest to you in terms of showing the evidence of donald trump's guilt in this case? >> i think the thing that is so extraordinary, katie, is the notes from the lawyer. most defendants don't deceive even their own lawyer, but we have these admissions from donald trump about, maybe you can take these 38 documents that were going to turn over in response to a grand jury and take them back to your hotel room and take a look and pluck out any that might be especially bad and then it says he used a plucking motion to describe it. there is a vivid detail here, and the idea that he is asking his lawyer to lie for him, and then when the lawyer clearly refuses, he and walt nauta scheme to even to see the lawyer. that is stuff that shows above and beyond strength of the intent of donald trump to it
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deceive. i think this is a very strong case. >> and so, barb, there is an indication from assistant special counsel jay brat that this case will take 21 days for the parties to try, and winning that from the indictment itself. let's talk about a timeline, because people want to know when this case is going to get to a jury trial, giving a bit of grace here or there for some type of delays. when you think we can reasonably anticipate seeing a jury trial in this particular case? >> well, you know, katie, some cases are incredibly complex and take a long time to litigate and get through discovery reviewed and motions. this case really isn't all that complex. it's about the retention of documents and lies about it. and so, the universe of discovery material is not all that vast. i imagine the next thing that happens is the trump team gets all that discovery, they get a chance to file motions, and they will. they will file every motion under the sun. selective prosecution, all kind
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of things at me like merits. and then once that's result, the trial data gets set, perhaps are some plea negotiations. in a case like this, i would think, six months, nine months seems reasonable. i'm sure trump will do everything he can to drag it out to a year. i don't see it going more than a year, so sometime in 2024 seems like a reasonable time, spring or summer of 2024. now, it does not account for any unforeseen circumstances, but i think a reasonable timeline would be spring of 24. >> barb, you treated that trump trolls are already reprieve-ing, quote, what about biden. talking points, false equivalency there, there's also some republican letter to -- which was closed with the doj with absolutely no charges being brought. please explain the key differences in these particular cases. >> yeah, you know, the biden case is still under investigation, maybe there will be more facts that come out later, but what we've seen to date for biden and pence is what appears to be an
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inadvertent retention of a handful of documents in the case of biden, it was 12 documents. pence, a handful of documents. they immediately notified the authorities that they had these documents, and return them voluntarily, and then allowed the fbi to come in and conduct a search of their homes to make sure they didn't miss anything. contrast that with what donald trump has done here. that only did he retain documents, but when asked to return them, he refused. he refused for 18 months. when a subpoena was sent to him, he lied about what he had and returned only a small portion of what he had. it requires the fbi to get a search warrant and go in and find these things, and even when that happened, he hid the boxes and lied about what he had. with jim comey said at the time, he recommended that hillary clinton's not featured. what he said then was, prosecutors typically do not charge cases in the absence of criminal intent and iger vaping factors like obstruction of justice, disloyalty to united states, or willful violation.
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in this case, we see all of those. >> and i invite everyone who's tuning in who hasn't already read this indictment, it may seem daunting because it says it's 49 pages, but in my pinion, you share it, it's an easy read, and it makes it clear that there is multiple incidents of obstruction by donald trump. barb mcquade, my good friend, thank you for joining us is starting us off, i appreciate it. >> thanks, katie. >> and a quick programming note, tonight at eight pm, ali velshi will lead special coverage of the indictment of donald trump and special counsel, jack smith's classified documents case. i'll join that conversation, along with my colleagues -- jonathan capehart, at least woman in this, and simone -- watch special coverage of the indictment of donald trump tonight, at eight pm eastern, only on msnbc. and still to come, trump's former personal attorney, michael cohen, who is at the center of trump's first indictment, will join me live to discuss the latest criminal charges against the next president. you don't want to miss that.
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but first, ahead, all have the chance to speak with congressman steve cohen to get his take on this indictment, right after a quick break. you're watching the katie phang show. e phan show it's easy to get lost in investment research. introducing j.p. morgan personal advisors. hey david. connect with an advisor to create your personalized plan. let's find the right investments for your goals okay, great. j.p. morgan wealth management. remember the things you loved... ...before asthma got in the way? fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's designed to target and remove them
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divided in the response to the indictment of donald trump in the mar-a-lago documents case. on the senate side, you have senator mitt romney, saying in a statement, quote, mr. trump brought these charges upon himself. and south dakota senator mike rounds, who has endorsed him scott in the 2024 primary. when asked about trump's indictment, he told axios, with him, i don't think you have those types of discussions. but on the house side, it's a different story. with house speaker kevin mccarthy's promising that, quote, house republicans will hold that this brazen weaponization of power accountable and congressman andy biggs took things even further, tweeting, we have now reached a war phase.
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i-4 and i. joining me now, tennessee congressman, steve cohen. he currently sits on the house judiciary committee. congressman, it's always a pleasure to have you on the show, we're looking at some unprecedented history right now. first, what is your reaction to the 49-page indictment of donald trump? >> i never thought i'd see a criminal case that made richard nixon look like a choir boy. watergate was the worst thing that happened to the presidency and to our history, one of presidents broke into the watergate and -- find information on the other party in order that to happen and try to cover it up. this is so much worse, taking military and new color, which our military secrets of the united states, illegally, away from the white house. he asked for them to be returned, light that they had been returned by hidden, lie again, and then hide materials and collude with this aids to
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hide material from the federal government went after they executed a search warrant for such. they continued to do such. who knows what he still has. he's known to be a transactional character, to monetizes everything. he could have sold these, he could have used them for some advantage, leverage, -- foreign government, to get something good for himself or jared kushner or his daughter or somebody else's family. this is astonishing, and it's the worst thing that's happened by a president in the history of the first president to be charged with federal crime and first in january six, he tried to overthrow the government, and now he's trying to sell the government out, probably to foreign governments or at least he is risking our government security and safety by making these records available to people who could see them at mar-a-lago, and show the people what he has done. i think --
quote
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jack smith has done a fabulous job, -- i compare him to surgeons -- just the facts, ma'am. >> you know, congressman, representative andy biggs, i brought his tweet up at the beginning of your interview. he puts out and i-4 and i. it's yet another example, in my opinion, of some violent rhetoric that far-right republicans are putting forth, encouraging political violence. what's your reaction to this because you work along side these colleagues of yours? it may not be the same party, right? but you guys are working in the same space, and this is the stuff that comes out of congressman, even after january 6th. >> it sickens me to hear it, it's really unpatriotic, and morally is a violation of your oath to protect and defend against all enemies of the united states. trump is an enemy of the united states, when he takes secret documents and make them available by having them in his
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bathroom, his party room, and you name it, and shows it to people. these secrets could get our soldiers and see eye agents, spies, whatever, and it could cause them to lose their lives. this is espionage, and for him to be doing this is unfasten -able, it's indefensible, unless you're getting paid a lot of money and you're guarantee you're going to get paid, which is unlikely, it's indefensible. everyone has a right to a trial, everyone has a right to a jury, you're innocent until proven guilty, you have a right to councils. the council wouldn't be representative except for a bunch of money, and i don't know what the congressman are getting, they're getting support from their district where they have a lot of trumpers -- maggot people who support that and put them in power, but they don't understand what's going on. you hear on talk radio, some of these shows -- bringing up hillary clinton, bringing up other things, and
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that's no comparison. there's no comparison to us this man has done since the traders in the revolutionary war, erin burr -- >> congressman, you are serving on the republican-led house judiciary committee. before had to let you go, i want to ask you about a letter that chairman jim jordan sent to the doj asking for, quote, all documents and communications regarding the mar-a-lago search is this is another attempt on house republicans to interfere with the existing investigations that are being conducted by the doj? >> our judiciary committee is turned away from, and protecting civil rights and civil liberties to defending trump and -- donald trump and his team. it's unfortunate a lot of the people that were involved in these efforts to save the whataboutisms, donald trump defenses on this. a lot of these same people are connected with donald trump during january 6th, that they
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try to hide the fact that they communicated with trump on january six, but they were coconspirators and they have a lot to hide because they're afraid of trump -- to fall to, i think. you've got a cabal that's not -- they were right wingers but they've been taken away from their duty and their oath by donald trump. he's poisoned these people. he's a lot of danger, michael cohen can tell you what he does to people -- went along with it for a long time. >> congressman steve cohen, as always, thanks for joining us and for sharing your insight, i appreciate you. >> thank you, katie. i appreciate you, as well. >> coming up, after the break, i'm gonna go one-on-one with donald trump's former personal attorney, michael cohen, and his predictions for how his former boss will handle being under a federal indictment. keep it right here on msnbc. ep it right here on msnbc. rsv could cut it short. ♪
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announced that former president donald trump had been indicted on federal charges in the classified documents case, two of his top lawyers abruptly resigned. attorneys jim trusty and john rally did not further elaborate on the exit other than saying it was a, quote, logical moment to to do so. our next guest has some firsthand experience being a member of trump's chaotic legal team. joining me now, former legal counsel to donald trump, michael cohen. he's also the host of the podcast and co-hosts of the political beetown podcast. the author of revenge and disloyal, and in his free time the principle of the company crisis x. michael, my friend, let's just go straight to the meat of this. a lot of the key evidence in jack smith's indictment involves using trump's own words against him. there's an excerpt on page 21, paragraph 54, which lays out trump's incriminating statements to through -- i don't want anybody looking, i don't anyone looking through my boxes, i really don't.
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i don't want you looking through my boxes. well, what if we, what happens if we don't respond it or where we don't play ball with them, wouldn't it be better we just told we don't have anything here? well, look, isn't it better there are no documents? michael, you and i have talked about the way trump would communicate with you, sometimes if the ball feels style of dropping suggestions -- are you surprised that trump said so incriminating? >> yeah, because normally he speaks, as i always stated, in mob code. this is not mob coat, this is just plain stupid speech. this is donald trump, basically telling them, i do not want you to go ahead and look through the boxes because he knew what was inside he knew. what was inside because he took it. everyone is presumed innocent, including donald trump, but if you look at the totality of the information, if you look at the documents that you had, if you look at the trail, 18 months
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it's like them to finally get back all of the documents. that looks like the trump presidential library to me. at the end of the day, if you think about it, this is 18 months in order to get back everything, including having lawyers lie in attestations, stating that there was nothing left for him. that's where you have the obstruction case from. this is more than just an espionage act. >> michael, paragraph 72 of this indictment indicates that -- floated several of trump's boxes, along with other items on an aircraft that flew trump and his family north for the summer. should special counsel jack smith's be checking out -- already happened. >> so, katie, you may remember, i said it on your show, i started on the code wallace's show -- reverend al, as i said on every msnbc show that had me on. you need to play that game, where is waldo, except is not where's waldo, it's where
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donald, and where are the top secret documents. every single location that donald went to, from the time that he left the white house, to today, needs to be examined. you may remember, i said he needs to go to trump tower here in new york, trump in vegas, he needs to go to trump l.a., he needs to go to his various different golf courses, to the kids houses. donny, ronica, eric, he needs to go to all of them because knowing donald the way i do, there is no doubt in my mind, and i said this also, that he would use these documents almost as a get out of jail free card. he'll use it in order to extort america. well, it came true. this is exactly what he's doing. you need to go to every single location and the bigger question is not what did he take their, but who did he means, who did he speak to, and who did he give some of this information to. >> you know, michael, we also know that this indictment makes
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it clear that trump, along with walt -- as a time was his attorney. he remains his attorney, let me be clear. evan corcoran only recused himself from being council on this mar-a-lago documents case because he was subpoenaed to testify in front of a grand jury. throwing lawyers under the bus is definitely not a new page in the trump playbook, is it? >> you know, it's not. in fact, as 12:00 midnight, trump, in an absolute panic, you may have seen it on his truth social, all caps again, which connotes, in trump's speech, that he's angry. but it also connects that he's nervous, that he's in a state of panic, and he starts attacking the biden administration. he starts attacking the doj, he starts attacking the attorney general. and why? again, read my book or eventual, understand why. that's what donald trump did during his administration. donald trump won ahead, he weaponized the doj using a
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willing and complicit attorney general. it's not what the biden administration has. you know my criticism of merrick garland in terms of how slow this is taking, but under bill barr, and -- attorney general, acting as trumps enforcement, went ahead and did every single thing that trump is talking about, the biden administration is doing. it's typical trump deflection. >> michael, we've got this arraignment coming up on tuesday. you and i spoke at length after that manhattan d.a.'s office indictment arraignment, where trumped look scared. he looked pale. he definitely said, i feel like he had to come to jesus moment, perhaps. what do you think will be going on with donald trump when he's going to a federal arraignment on tuesday? >> yeah, it's a little different than, of course, the state arraignment. i don't know whether or not they're going to put him through, none of us know. you hear a lot of -- their predictions, i'm not so sure. he is a former president of the
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united states, will they do a swab, a dna swab? will they take his fingerprints, will they give him -- to a mugshot. is it even necessary? i don't know. he should, in my opinion, should be treated no different than anyone else. in fact, if he was treated the same as everyone else, this case would have been launched a long time ago, he would have already been indicted a long, long time ago, 18 months ago, and he would've already been convicted along time ago. unfortunately, he is not the same as everyone, as a former president of the united states, but i will tell you one thing that jack smith and merrick garland and this geo day -- all of us, is that no one, and i mean no one, is above the law, not even a former president. michael, just to let you put a finer point on this, you are always called upon -- insight in terms of how your
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former clients, and i'd say friends, because you are with him for so many years, how he thinks and kind of how he ticks. he likes to put this teflon aura out there for public consumption, that he really doesn't give a you know what about what's happening to him, but it's not like he's 20 years old. it's not like he has the rest of his life ahead of him. the dude is up there in age. what do you think is really going on in terms of how he's processing this? i mean, you talk about how he reacts and truth social, but he's going to be the last man standing if he continued to throw people under the bus and he continues to look at indictment after indictment. >> well, look, just yesterday i had to go to the store and get rid of my friday pan because it teflon him off that, as well. it's coming off of trump slowly but surely. you are so right on point there, katie. donald will throw anyone and everyone under the bus in order to preserve his own freedom, in order to benefit himself. m, ii think the doj should be, s we're not already looking at
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the unholy relationships that exist between saudi arabia, mohammed bin salman, and jared kushner. i mean, this whole two plus billion dollars to an unqualified hedge fund or makes no sense to me, and in light of the information that came out, that there was military information on iran, and we all know what that saudi arabia has had iranian aggression on their mind for a long time. who knows what was shown to them, who knows what was discussed, who knows what was sold. none of us. i do believe that our law enforcement, because we have the greatest law enforcement in the world. they can't find anything, and i believe they will find a lot of information that goes outside of trump, even though i do believe he probably had his hands in it, that he certainly knows about it, and chances are, if he had his chance in it, and he knew about, it he profited
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it from it. >> michael cohen, as always, i want to thank you for your transparency and for your bloodless. it's exactly what we need at this time. thanks for being here. >> good to see you, katie. >> and our coverage of the second indictment, of former president donald trump continues next with elie must all of the nation. he joins me after a quick break, you'll definitely want to stick around for that conversation. you're watching the katie phang show on msnbc. . nbc. your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel- nothing beats it. new pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. mom: hey! cheap flight alert! gamechanger for my patients- daughter: hawaii! can we go? dad: maybe. i'll put a request in monday. sfx: shattering glass. theme song: unnecessary action hero! dad: was that necessary? unnecessary action hero: no. neither is missing this deal. with paycom, vacation is yours to manage. unnecessary action hero: not to mention benefits, scheduling, payroll.
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it's easy to get lost in investment research. introducing j.p. morgan personal advisors. hey david. connect with an advisor to create your personalized plan. let's find the right investments for your goals okay, great. j.p. morgan wealth management. discuss what his second indictment mean for the country and 2024 election. >> he stands indicted for trying to abuse power if he didn't even have. >> tuesday at eight, on msnbc. at eight, on msnbc.
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and we're back with more coverage on the breaking news on the federal indictment of former president donald trump. while we await trump's day in federal court on tuesday, my next guest thinks his child may not be done before the 2024 election day. for more, and joining me, is almost all, justice correspondent for the nation and the author of allow me to retort, a black guy's guy to the institution. elie, it is a pretty bad chandelier in the bathroom, i would concur with you, and it's probably not the right place for classified documents to be. we'll start with a speedy trial idea -- doj will seek a speedy trial. you and i both know his lawyer, speedy trial has a different meaning in the legal world when it comes to criminal cases. but in this instance, do you think jackson has meant it more in the colloquial sense? >> i think jen in it and the
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clerk will sense, but a speedy trial is a thing in florida, right? they have what's called a florida rocket docket, they have gotten in trouble for pushing through cases that have warp speed as fast as possible. i think speedy trial statute in florida -- 70 days from indictments to trials, that's the goal of the speedy trial in florida. the problem, katie, is that this is an unprecedented case. i don't think they're going to shove trump along the committee with which they travel long a foreclosure hearing in florida. this is going to take a lot of time. that's even before you add in the fact that you have trump judge, aileen cannon, going over the initial stages of this trial. she's going to introduce delay and every opportunity to help donald trump. so while jack smith, i think, once to go as expeditiously as possible, it's not up to him at
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this point, right? and the forces at play are going to delay -- if you're contemplating how long it was going to take trump to be brought to trial after the indictment was the trickiest saying he's done about changing his lawyers, right? that might seem like he's just doing his usual trump saying, he was like your fire -- from the subway, to represent me. but, by switching lawyers, he creates a delay in his own trial process -- can reasonably shop in court on tuesday, and be like hey, i just got here, we need to set a later date for motions for me to get up to speed on this case, that would be a reasonable request in a -- vacuum, right? and then again, we're going up in front of trump judge, aileen cannon. all of these factors lead to
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mind prediction, my feeling, my worry that this trial, despite jacques smith's best efforts, will not come off before the start of the republican national convention in 2024 and if you are thinking of trying to try donald trump, when he is the nominee of a major party in an election that's going to happen in a couple of months, i just don't think that's going to happen, which leads to, if you're going to convict trump on these charges, lay that out in the indictment, the 38 counts of espionage and obstruction of justice, his you're going to get a conviction on that, you're going to have to defeat him at the polls first. >> let's talk about evan corcoran. i am obsessed with inside this indictment, one of the most jaw-dropping things that i've read was the level of detail and specificity that evan corcoran did with those notes. the one he took for himself, for sure very self serving, and yet it's a chef's kiss in terms of poetic justice.
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trump threw evan corcoran under the bus by basically moving the boxes out of the way with the help of walt nauta, before the fbi rolls in, and of course evan puts christina bobb under the bus as well, but he makes or sign that certification that she had no business signing. let's talk quickly about crime fraud exception. we talked about it, people mentioned it and how it was used to fiercely attorney-client privilege in this case. pages and pages of had written that was turned over to jack smith. i think that evan corcoran was weirder than a court reporter -- all the bad evidence that was against donald trump. >> yeah, -- get attorneys, right? evan corcoran, it turns out he knew it was a, what was up, rates? he did what he had to do to protect himself from a person like trump who obviously knows has a history of throwing people, and especially his attorneys, under the bus, and lying to them. corcoran did himself a solid by memorializing and recording the
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orders that he was given. you had michael cohen on. at that michael cohen wishes that in certain situations he had been more meticulous about surreptitiously recording and memorializing thing that trump sent to head. corcoran has learned from other peoples mistakes, and while surely it was the help of his own self, i think it's actually help the investigation and might eventually help bring trump to justice. that was a nice turn. katie, i'm still floored at the bit where he says, you know, when i was president i couldn't have declassified it, but now i can. that was his whole defense! his entirely go defense was like everything i declassified, so why are you even asking me about it. he's on tape saying, this ain't declassified and i can declassify it now. okay, that's the, what more do you want him to say? that blows up his entire your
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own self defense. >> and with that, i will say, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, icons counsel mr. muscle has delivered the closing arguments on the behalf of the department of justice. elie mystal, my friend, always good to have you here. we'll have you back because we want to talk a bit about managing expectation when it comes to -- it's an important conversation for people to have an understanding. thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> and coming up next, we're going to take a look at what's someone capitol hill are saying about the former presidents federal criminal charges. that's after a quick break. after a quick break s out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. [daughter] slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. trying vapes to quit smoking might feel like progress, but with 3x more nicotine than a pack of cigarettes - vapes increase cravings - trapping you in an endless craving loop. nicorette reduces cravings until they're gone for good.
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it's easy to get lost in investment research. introducing j.p. morgan personal advisors. hey david. connect with an advisor to create your personalized plan. let's find the right investments for your goals okay, great. j.p. morgan wealth management. with a majority of my patience with sensitivity, i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum & enamel relieves sensitivity, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. remember the things you loved... ...before asthma got in the way? fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's designed to target and remove them and helps prevent asthma attacks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. get back to better breathing. ask your doctor about fasenra. once word of trump's indictment
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was announced, there was a race to the bottom for many republicans on capitol hill who are quick to denounce it and throw their support behind the former president. twitter was filled with attacks by lawmakers, calling it a weaponization of the justice department, a witch hunt, and a sad day for america.
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here's house speaker kevin mccarthy speaking to fox news yesterday. >> this is going to disrupt his nation because it goes to the core of equal justice for all, which is not being seen today, and we're not going to stand for it. >> but it's cracks maybe starting to form. my next guest hearing from one gop lawmaker saying, quote, i'm done defending him. would he ever defend any of us? never. joining me now, julie grace briefcase, congressional reporter with axios. julie, you have some access to the inside that's going on in washington d.c. right now. i mentioned your tweets quoting republican lawmakers saying that if they're done defending donald trump. based on your reporting, was this person an outlier, or can we expect more republicans to fall in line and continue to throw their support behind donald trump? >> i think you'll see a lot of house republicans continue to defend him. on thursday, we saw a lot of people come out on twitter, we saw people come out --
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strong defense. now that being said, i talked to some of the trumpian lawmakers yesterday that after the indictment drop, to saying it was more detailed than they expected, and that is not a great look, and they have concerns. >> your colleagues at axios are also reporting about a split between the house and senate republicans over this indictment, with members of the segment be more vocal about -- criticize former president trump. why do you think that is? putting aside the craziness as a freedom caucus that we see in the house, why do you think there is such a divide there and can you expect something material to happen that might move the needle in terms of a lack of support for donald trump? >> yeah, there's absolutely differences we hugh house and said, it just a night that makes in general there. we all know mitch mcconnell and donald trump had never had the best relationship, so we've seen -- mr. connell say stay largely quiet -- a big critic of president trump. i mean, there was also a
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staunch between the new york indictment and this indictment with ramy statements. i think a lot of these republican see this as a much more serious situation than previous indictments. >> i had a republican, excuse me, congressman steve cohen on just a little bit ago. he's on the republican-led house judiciary committee, and i asked him the following about the fact that you've got these letters that are going out by the chair, jim jordan, to the doj -- doj, demanding more information about how the concert was conducted by the fbi mar-a-lago. we know that search unveiled more than 100 classified documents. what can you tell us about the house judiciary committee, for example, trying to weaponize their own committee to be able to meddle in an investigation that's being conducted, frankly now resulted, in a felony federal indictment? >> i think we saw even kevin mccarthy was his statement, house republicans will hold these investigators accountable, calling weaponization.
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jim jordan is obviously going one of trump's strongest allies, and we're gonna try to turn the narrative. next, week as until here a lot of republicans turning to the hundred biden talking points and president biden is under investigation for -- classified documents. i think that's going to be the narrative moving forward on that ends. >> julie grace, have you heard anything also about the fact that we're not done with indictment season? we know that fani willis, the dea in fulton county, georgia, has made an announcement that we should be looking at indictments at the end of july, is the beginning of august, right before the first primary for the gop candidates. i mean, there's gotta be chatter in the hallways that this is not the first of the indictments, this is number two, in fact, and there might be more criminal exposure for donald trump down the road. >> i spoke to one senior gop lawmaker yesterday that said these indictments do nothing but help him -- do so the primary. their take on it was that this is sucking oxygen away from
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under candidates trying to get their messaging out. my sense from talking to republicans, they feel is not going to move the needle from the primary standpoint. >> you know, julia grace, it always blows me out just a little bit. i love you, but i get bombs when i have these conversations because i feel like there's this common sense that just gets thrown out when people crossed a threshold, when the employee entered the capitol sometimes. -- thank you so much for joining, us i really appreciate it. >> thanks so much for having me. >> and a quick programming note, tonight at eight pm, ali velshi will lead special coverage of the indictment of donald trump in special counsel's jack smith classified documents case. i will be joining that conversation, along with my colleagues, even will dean, jonathan capehart, at least even end is, and simone sanders towns in. watch special coverage of the indictment of donald trump tonight at eight pm eastern, only right here on msnbc. now i want to thank all of you for joining me this morning, we had a two hour right together. i'll be back here tomorrow morning at 8 am, eastern. my regular time, where i will
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welcome terry strada, whose husband was killed in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, who joins me to discuss the controversial alliance between the pga tour and -- why 9/11 families are speaking out against said. i remember to follow what katie phang show on twitter, instagram and tiktok. stay tuned, our continuing on core wing coverage of -- picks up next, with my friend, ali velshi. ali velshi [♪♪] if you have diabetes, it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control®. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. want a worry-free way to kill bugs? zevo traps use light to attract and trap flying insects with no odor and no mess. they work continuously, so you don't have to. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly. it's easy to get lost in investment research.
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i'm ali velshi, and in the united states no one is above the law, including a man whom the public elected to the highest office in the land, and interested with the country's most sensitive and closely guarded secrets. but the twice impeached and now twice indicted ex president donald trump repeatedly demonstrated, both over the course of his turbulent presidency and as he begrudgingly left office, that he believed he was above the law. as the national archives reiterated in a press release this week, ever since the disgraceful and of richard nixon's own administration, the presidential records act has requires that all records recreated by presidents and vice presidents be turned over to the national archives at the end of each administration. that law also, quote, makes a legal status of

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